Thumper
05-22-2021, 09:57 PM
I've done a ton of research on this motorhome purchase. I mean, it's a MAJOR investment ... 1 and 1/2 times what I paid for my frigging house! But, on top of that, I've done just as much research on my "toad" ... which is what the motorhome community calls a "towed vehicle". See? I'm becoming "one of them"! ;)
Anyway, I've read a bazillion blogs and watched endless YouTube videos as well as read a pile of crap from manufactures and motorhome supply companies regarding "toads". There are pages of info out there regarding what can and cannot be "flat towed" (towed with all four wheels on the ground). The most popular is various versions of (4WD) Jeeps, since you can simply disengage the transfer case, but for the purpose of this conversation, I'm NOT including Jeeps (or any 4WD vehicles with a transfer case) because they are heavier than I want, or am capable of towing, so lets talk "cars". Now I KNOW you cannot flat tow anything with an automatic, but there are lists on the I-net of cars that CAN be flat-towed ... and I know if it's on the Internet, it must be true, correct?
The Nissan Versa (standard shift only) is one of those cars that is almost always included on those lists and many bloggers actually pull Versas. There is a guy who works at the company where I bought my motorhome who tows a Versa. Now what concerns me is, mine is a 2021, so I've wanted to make sure there have been no engineering changes that might move it into the league of vehicles that cannot be towed. I haven't found ANYTHING that hints of any transmission changes, but to make sure, I contacted a couple of Nissan dealers. I called one Service Manager and I could tell he was clueless and he really wouldn't comment one way or the other. At one dealer, I went in to actually look at a used model, asked the salesman the question and again, got the distinct impression he had no idea, but he wanted to sell me the car, so he pulled up the owner's manual on-line. It was ambiguous and a bit confusing, but it DID show an image of one being flat towed and mentioned it had to be a stick shift vehicle. BUT I have no idea if his search was model year specific as I don't remember which exact model I was there to look at (I've looked at a dozen or so, of various years).
Ok, I finally called the Nissan FACTORY Customer Service Department and it was again obvious, they were clueless robots who did nothing but read scripts to their customers. I finally (politely) asked the rep. if I could talk to someone of authority who could give me a straight answer. Well, I was put on hold for a few minutes and the same lady came back and instructed me to read the Owner's Manual! WTF? That's customer service? Maybe I'm spoiled, but when I was a "REAL" Service Manager back in day (these days Service Managers are "just" managers ... with no real mechanical expertise to speak of and have never turned a wrench themselves), I could get on the phone, call Detroit and actually talk with an Engineer, or a GROUP of Engineers if need be, but times have changed I guess. I've tried asking mechanics ... but even the average mechanic has changed, they don't actually FIX things, they REPLACE parts! Again, back in the day, we would REBUILD things, now it's just unbolt it, throw it away and bolt in a new one. You have to know how something works to rebuild it, you don't have to know squat to simply replace it. But I digress ...
After much thought and research, I pulled the trigger and purchased a 2021 Versa yesterday. This morning I'm perusing the Owner's Manual and go to the section on "towing". I wade through the pages and it mostly refers to proper lift-points for tow trucks, in case of a break down, etc. ... or towing a trailer. I then find the BRIEF section on "Flat Towing". It gives the definition of "flat towing" and mentions the method is often used when towing behind a "recreational vehicle" such as a motorhome. Ok, we have the definition down ... so I continue reading.
I quote ... from the Owner's Manual:
Whenever flat towing your vehicle, always tow forward, never backward. Failure to follow these guidelines can result in severe transmission damage!
Umm, duh! Who would flat-tow their vehicle BACKWARDS anyway? And why? But, ok, it appears as long as I flat tow with the car pointing FORWARD, I'm good! Right? Now remember, this is all posted under the heading "Flat Towing" within the Versa Owner's Manual. Here's where the mud comes in.
The very next sentence reads:
Never tow your front wheel drive vehicle with the front tires on the ground. Doing so may cause serious and expensive damage to the powertrain!
Ummm, ok ... excuse me, but ALL Versas are front wheel drive and the preceding sentence tells me to make sure I'm pulling the car FORWARD, but it makes NO distinction between "standard shift" and automatic transmission models! WTF? Besides, if the front tires are NOT on the ground, you are NOT flat-towing!
Today, I again contacted the factory and again got in touch with a "script reader". I gave him the reference to the exact page of the Owner's Manual I was reading so he could pull it up and read along with me. He then informed me he could not find the Versa Owner's Manual on his computer, although he had all other models there! I will admit he was very helpful and when I asked to speak with an actual ENGINEER ... or at least someone TECHNICAL who could answer my question, he opened a Consumer Affairs Case and promised I would be contacted via phone no later than COB on Monday to give me a definitive answer. NOW I'm a bit nervous! I already PURCHASED this frigging car! Did I put the cart before the horse? I guess I'll find out Monday.
But ... oh no! WAIT!! Maybe not. Will I hear from anybody on Monday? Now I'm not sure. I just received the email below. Well duh, I just bought this thing last night, I don't have most of this stuff yet. What frigging difference does it make whether or not I own the car, just answer my fucking question! Who gives a squat whether or not I own this particular vehicle? ALL I WANT TO KNOW is whether or not you can flat tow a frigging Nissan Versa equipped with a manual transmission!!! WTF???
Date:5/22/2021
Case # 43923323
VIN # XXXXXXXXXXX807180
Dear James,
Thank you for contacting Nissan and allowing us the opportunity to assist.
So that we may update our vehicle ownership information in order to provide you with the best service, please reply to this email and attach the following documentation:
Proof of Ownership document which can include one of the following:
Insurance Card with Name, Address, and Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)
Copy of Title
Certificate of Title
Bill of Sale
Vehicle Registration
Verification from company-owned vehicle that the person registering is the Authorized Driver of that vehicle.
PLUS
Proof of Residency (mailing address)
Your Proof of Ownership documents can also be faxed to: (615) 967-2333. If you prefer sending through mail, please contact us for mailing information.
Case #43923323 has been updated to document this request. Please reference this Case number when you write or call. If you have any questions, feel free to contact us directly at 1-800-647-7261 (Option 7).
We look forward to hearing from you soon. Your satisfaction is important to us!
Sincerely,
Nissan Consumer Affairs Representative
Nissan North America, Inc.
Anyway, I've read a bazillion blogs and watched endless YouTube videos as well as read a pile of crap from manufactures and motorhome supply companies regarding "toads". There are pages of info out there regarding what can and cannot be "flat towed" (towed with all four wheels on the ground). The most popular is various versions of (4WD) Jeeps, since you can simply disengage the transfer case, but for the purpose of this conversation, I'm NOT including Jeeps (or any 4WD vehicles with a transfer case) because they are heavier than I want, or am capable of towing, so lets talk "cars". Now I KNOW you cannot flat tow anything with an automatic, but there are lists on the I-net of cars that CAN be flat-towed ... and I know if it's on the Internet, it must be true, correct?
The Nissan Versa (standard shift only) is one of those cars that is almost always included on those lists and many bloggers actually pull Versas. There is a guy who works at the company where I bought my motorhome who tows a Versa. Now what concerns me is, mine is a 2021, so I've wanted to make sure there have been no engineering changes that might move it into the league of vehicles that cannot be towed. I haven't found ANYTHING that hints of any transmission changes, but to make sure, I contacted a couple of Nissan dealers. I called one Service Manager and I could tell he was clueless and he really wouldn't comment one way or the other. At one dealer, I went in to actually look at a used model, asked the salesman the question and again, got the distinct impression he had no idea, but he wanted to sell me the car, so he pulled up the owner's manual on-line. It was ambiguous and a bit confusing, but it DID show an image of one being flat towed and mentioned it had to be a stick shift vehicle. BUT I have no idea if his search was model year specific as I don't remember which exact model I was there to look at (I've looked at a dozen or so, of various years).
Ok, I finally called the Nissan FACTORY Customer Service Department and it was again obvious, they were clueless robots who did nothing but read scripts to their customers. I finally (politely) asked the rep. if I could talk to someone of authority who could give me a straight answer. Well, I was put on hold for a few minutes and the same lady came back and instructed me to read the Owner's Manual! WTF? That's customer service? Maybe I'm spoiled, but when I was a "REAL" Service Manager back in day (these days Service Managers are "just" managers ... with no real mechanical expertise to speak of and have never turned a wrench themselves), I could get on the phone, call Detroit and actually talk with an Engineer, or a GROUP of Engineers if need be, but times have changed I guess. I've tried asking mechanics ... but even the average mechanic has changed, they don't actually FIX things, they REPLACE parts! Again, back in the day, we would REBUILD things, now it's just unbolt it, throw it away and bolt in a new one. You have to know how something works to rebuild it, you don't have to know squat to simply replace it. But I digress ...
After much thought and research, I pulled the trigger and purchased a 2021 Versa yesterday. This morning I'm perusing the Owner's Manual and go to the section on "towing". I wade through the pages and it mostly refers to proper lift-points for tow trucks, in case of a break down, etc. ... or towing a trailer. I then find the BRIEF section on "Flat Towing". It gives the definition of "flat towing" and mentions the method is often used when towing behind a "recreational vehicle" such as a motorhome. Ok, we have the definition down ... so I continue reading.
I quote ... from the Owner's Manual:
Whenever flat towing your vehicle, always tow forward, never backward. Failure to follow these guidelines can result in severe transmission damage!
Umm, duh! Who would flat-tow their vehicle BACKWARDS anyway? And why? But, ok, it appears as long as I flat tow with the car pointing FORWARD, I'm good! Right? Now remember, this is all posted under the heading "Flat Towing" within the Versa Owner's Manual. Here's where the mud comes in.
The very next sentence reads:
Never tow your front wheel drive vehicle with the front tires on the ground. Doing so may cause serious and expensive damage to the powertrain!
Ummm, ok ... excuse me, but ALL Versas are front wheel drive and the preceding sentence tells me to make sure I'm pulling the car FORWARD, but it makes NO distinction between "standard shift" and automatic transmission models! WTF? Besides, if the front tires are NOT on the ground, you are NOT flat-towing!
Today, I again contacted the factory and again got in touch with a "script reader". I gave him the reference to the exact page of the Owner's Manual I was reading so he could pull it up and read along with me. He then informed me he could not find the Versa Owner's Manual on his computer, although he had all other models there! I will admit he was very helpful and when I asked to speak with an actual ENGINEER ... or at least someone TECHNICAL who could answer my question, he opened a Consumer Affairs Case and promised I would be contacted via phone no later than COB on Monday to give me a definitive answer. NOW I'm a bit nervous! I already PURCHASED this frigging car! Did I put the cart before the horse? I guess I'll find out Monday.
But ... oh no! WAIT!! Maybe not. Will I hear from anybody on Monday? Now I'm not sure. I just received the email below. Well duh, I just bought this thing last night, I don't have most of this stuff yet. What frigging difference does it make whether or not I own the car, just answer my fucking question! Who gives a squat whether or not I own this particular vehicle? ALL I WANT TO KNOW is whether or not you can flat tow a frigging Nissan Versa equipped with a manual transmission!!! WTF???
Date:5/22/2021
Case # 43923323
VIN # XXXXXXXXXXX807180
Dear James,
Thank you for contacting Nissan and allowing us the opportunity to assist.
So that we may update our vehicle ownership information in order to provide you with the best service, please reply to this email and attach the following documentation:
Proof of Ownership document which can include one of the following:
Insurance Card with Name, Address, and Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)
Copy of Title
Certificate of Title
Bill of Sale
Vehicle Registration
Verification from company-owned vehicle that the person registering is the Authorized Driver of that vehicle.
PLUS
Proof of Residency (mailing address)
Your Proof of Ownership documents can also be faxed to: (615) 967-2333. If you prefer sending through mail, please contact us for mailing information.
Case #43923323 has been updated to document this request. Please reference this Case number when you write or call. If you have any questions, feel free to contact us directly at 1-800-647-7261 (Option 7).
We look forward to hearing from you soon. Your satisfaction is important to us!
Sincerely,
Nissan Consumer Affairs Representative
Nissan North America, Inc.